Jesus second illustration in verse 35 is about two people who will be grinding at a mill. one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription. for out of the abundance of the heart Luke says, the Flood came and destroyed them all, and Matthew says, the Flood came and took them all away. To be taken was to be destroyed, or die. We are to keep His sacrifice in the presence of their persecutions by not returning evil for their evil. Sadly, this verse has been used to support the secret rapture belief. The body is the dead body of unbelievers we are to leave behind in order to follow Jesus. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and (34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners. We would do well to expand the context of the passage under consideration by going to verse 20 in the same chapter, where the Pharisees questioned Jesus about when the kingdom of God was coming. Their carcasses [were] as refuse in the midst of the streets. But Luke 17:35 is much more clear. It is described in Matthew 25:31-46. Big difference. The answer begins by understanding that duosimply means two. The word can refer to two men, two women, two children, a mother and a child, or two of anything. pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. They will also be tormented in the presence of the holy angels.the messengers.the words of our Lord which are life and spirit. The carcase is Christ, or the body of Christ; the eagles are the saints, or true Christians; these, whatever happens, will, with keen spiritual sight, always be able to discern Christ and his body, and to flock thereto. He didnt have to. and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Before the flood, some people were taken and some were left. If I can be shown to be wrong from scripture then I will be happy to be corrected. Here is my translation of Luke 17:22-37. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, "Gather the weeds FIRST and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn. " The one shall be taken; by the Roman soldiers: and the other shall be left; being, by one providence or another preserved; which is mentioned, to show the distinction God will make in his providence, and to encourage believers to trust in it. and the other shall be left. Arise, let us go hence.*. This answered prayer was what caused me to doubt Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and then I became convinced its impossible. Comp., moreover, on Matthew 24:40 f. ] which Bengel, in opposition to the context, explains: in this present night, is neither to be interpreted in . Those who were taken were those who remained in the city and were taken by the Roman army. desolation is near. And he said This chart shows the flow of events as: 1) The Antichrist at Point 1. them, Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered (Matthew 24:28). Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Luke 17:34 This is not the sudden catching up (or rapture) of believers as described in 1 Thess 4:13-18 when Christ returns in the air (not to earth), and gathers believers to be with Him. The Lord shall consume them with the Spirit of His mouth as they will gnash their teeth in rage against what they hear Him saying and will speak all kinds of evil in resistance which will destroy themselves. That says, "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. Perhaps it means that the ones taken will be disenfranchised, their goods confiscated and their rights terminated as a "felony". In both passages Jesus is talking about the end of the age which is the 7 years of Great Tribulation immediately before Jesus comes. Their own words will come back upon them to destroy them. When the Lord comes to open up the Scriptures to our hearing ears, there is going to be a major upset among the churches of men who will hear His voice (in the Spirit of Truth) and not believe and agree with what He says as they will seek to defend their denominational interpretationstheir own thoughts and ways. For more on the secret rapture: Can you give me the Bible support for the Secret Rapture? It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. Luke 17:34. by John Dart October 26, 2011 Guest Post (12) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. A remnant will survive. Thanks for contributing an answer to Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange! Luke 17:34 (NIV). Please see, Welcome and thank you for your contribution. He also expands on this here by saying "Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Thank you! In Luke 17, as you can see there is no indication whatsoever that the final separation of the saved and lost will be done in any secretive manner. Why is this sentence from The Great Gatsby grammatical? And verse 37 confirms that as well And they answered and said unto him, Where Lord? There is no doubt the disciples were referring to the ones taken. Ezekiel 39:12. Posted on Aug 19, 2017 I believe you are referring to Luke 17:34-36. me no more; (11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is Jesus prayer was answered when Jew and Gentile became ONE in Christ on the day of Pentecost. When one is taken and the other left Israel will know the end of the age has come. or 'There!' And they said 24 answer, and I originally didn't see the Luke 17 answer on CSE. Some use Luke 17:34-36 to teach the secret rapture belief but to understand the complete picture of this passage, we need to read the verses before and after. expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter Marayong NSW 2148 (Luke 17:34) The day that the Son of Man is revealed seems to be the same day on which destruction comes, the day when one is taken and another left. Luke 17:21. Now, do Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:40-41 refer to the rapture? supper of the great God; (18) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. They are not still future. them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. could be that the taken are the people who were steadfast in their faith in the face of danger, so saving their lives for eternity. Some understand it to mean that the Son of Man will inevitably appear just as eagles inevitably show up where there is carrion. And this is in perfect harmony with what the rest of the Bible says on the subject. Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. Jesus Second Coming is for those who have believed in Him for the forgiveness of their sins. Below you will see three different translations of the original Greek Koine. them, Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.. How to prove that the supernatural or paranormal doesn't exist? That was Jesus context when He said it would be like this at the coming of the Son of Man. @Charlie I appreciate your research in finding a similar question; I searched it, but originally didn't see the Luke text, although the Matthew records almost the same discussion. is luke 21:36 talking about the rapture. A very important study that also explains this illustration is, Seven Signs of Christs Second Coming.. Here is Matthew 24:37-39. The ones who are taken are destroyed, just like the flood story of Noah, the flood came and took them all away, Matthew 24: 39. I will answer it myself, if no one else has a satisfactory answer, but I would like to keep it open, just in case. Thus eagles in Luke 17:37 could refer angels. But, we must also "Arise up" and get outjust as Lot was commanded to do. For example, it is important to notice that in Luke 17:22 we are told that Jesus referred to the days of the Son of Man, and He did it again in Luke 17:30. Likewise, the parable of the wheat and tares teaches that the tares will be gathered and burned before the wheat is brought into the barn (the Kingdom). It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. It is expedient that we go away.following Him out. The image is from a painting by: Hieronymus Bosch. rev2023.3.3.43278. First I must acknowledge that faithful men may take a different view but the important thing is not to take any position simply because a particular scholar teaches it. They can rise to 10,000 feet almost out of sight. There are many Antichrists but one body of Christ. Thank you for contributing. Luke 17:34-37 ESV - 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. Any date. The birds come to pluck out their eyes as they eat their carcasses: [Isa 5:25 NKJV] 25 Therefore the anger of the LORD is aroused against His people; He has stretched out His hand against them And stricken them, And the hills trembled. Matthew 13:30 . I tell you, in that night there shall be two. The question we are to consider in this paper is the interpretation of part of the Lords words in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:1-44) and the Lords answer to the Pharisees question, When the kingdom of God should come? in Luke17:20. Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, "Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great." The message is destruction. daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of So how do we interpret the words of Jesus when He said that in one night there would a global disappearance of individuals from bed, the field and at the mill? I believe that the context in Luke is about not being like Lots wife an having one foot in the kingdom and one foot still back in Sodom , you will be left for destruction. (33) Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and English Standard Version Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. [Jer 9:22 NKJV] 22 Speak, "Thus says the LORD: 'Even the carcasses of men shall fall as refuse on the open field, Like cuttings after the harvester, And no one shall gather [them].' This was not an answer given in the previous discussion of this question; I basically agree with your conclusion-there is no other way of interpreting 'eagle' except as a bird of prey, consequently, those 'taken' by the eagles are where eagles go to devour their flesh-certainly no picture of anything that looks like heaven. Those whom Jesus said would be left would be those who heeded the warning and fled to the mountains. 42 Keep awake Most Popular. Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. One will be taken and the other left. Resurrection Accounts Resurrection of Christ, Thus says the LORD, Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man boast of his might, let not a rich man boast of his riches; but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me . All Sermons Bible Studies Devotionals Prayers. There He simply said day that the Son of Man. The term Son of Man is a reference to Himself. (31) In that day, he which shall be upon the 2) The Great Tribulation at Point 3. And Noah and Lot are used as examples of those left behind and surviving destruction; Noah survived the flood but everyone else was destroyed and Lot survived the fiery brimstone but everyone else was destroyed. and hath nothing in me.*. Here is a blog post that explains it in more detail: https://overcomingthetribulation.com/carcasses-eagles-and-taken/. We who believe must ARISE and go from here and snatch others from the coming fire as well. Other scriptures could be added such as John 14:3 which clearly refers to the Rapture though, at the time, Jesus ministry was confined to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6). horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? judge him in the last day. 28 "Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating and Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. The ones taken were saved and the ones left were the ones destroyed by the flood. We must "ARISE" and go away from the company of the "dead"the unbelievers who will hear the revealed Word of Truth and will not believe in it when they do. Who will be devoured? for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. Revelation 19:17-21. Luke 17 provides further powerful proof of the order of gatherings, as if the harmony of several passages so far were not enough. together. Luke 17:30-33(NASB). He has revealed to us the" mystery of his will"(Ephesians 1:9) Learning about it can lead to salvation and can provide you with a glimpse into the Creator's unfathomable wisdom. The word for taken in Luke 17:34 is the Greek word paralamban, which means to receive from and is the same Greek word that is used in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. This seems to refer to Christ taking the church in the event of the rapture rather than some other sort of taken. 22 He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will yearn to see one of the days of the Son of Man, . Check out ourBible Answerspage for more information on a variety of topics. The CEB and the disciple who barely escaped Whenever a new Bible translation comes out, questions arise about changes to familiar passages. will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Jesus refers to the flood sweeping the people away when they are caught off guard. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. Real Questions. It would be true to say that the Disciples could not have understood Jesus to be referring to the Rapture but to say that Jesus was not speaking of the Rapture is just a wrong exposition. This is clearly speaking about the Church which though unrevealed at the time, was future in Gods plan. Does God expect me to live with a physically abusive spouse. For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. (8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the We are not to return evil for their evil that will come out of their mouths as we leave their company. " G105 Eagle (or vulture) Could also read; Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever One will be taken and the other left. THE RAPTURE, A SECRET UNTIL JESUS CHRIST REVEALED IT TO PAUL Attempting to argue against those who say Jesus never preached about the Rapture, people will take Jesus' words in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 about individuals being taken away, and make them apply to people being taken to heaven in the Rapture. I realized the disciples were asking where the taken where taken (in Luke 17:37), so then Jesus answer made sense literally: vultures will eat the carcasses of people (the wicked) who die. About UsContact UsPrayer RequestsPrivacy Policy, Latest AnswersBible LessonsBibleAsk LIVEOnline Bible. If you se vultures you know where the corpses are. Who is the second? The Holy Spirit chose the words of Scripture and any interpretation must faithfully interpret those words in their literal meaning. All Rights Reserved. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? After Jesus said, one would be taken and the other left, the disciples asked where they would be left. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. There will be persecutions coming from the group we leave behind as they will think it strange that we no longer run with them in their church things. The people "left behind" - These are non Christians. 1) Jesus did speak of the Rapture and of the Church before He died even though the Disciple could not understand it. Please. In one case those left are judged and in the other case those left are blessed! So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners. Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left. Recommend reading Luke 17:20-37 for better understanding, the parallel in Matthew below is a slightly different, this is because Jesus repeated many things as he preached from town to town. at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that It is taken to mean that one day believers will be secretly "raptured" away and the rest will be "left behind." What's the problem here, you ask? Luke 17:34 Context Crossref Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. The passage here in Luke 17 in many ways parallels that of Matthew 24. (34) I tell you, in (1-2) The danger of stumbling another. I was pleased to see the CEB use the word "disciple" to refer to the mysterious young man who appears in Mark 14:51-52, after the 12 disciples desert Jesus and run away. He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. They will seek to prevent others in believing the revealed Word of Truth and will persecute those who will receive it in faith. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. That is, birds of prey visible in the heavens congregate and devour corpses on earth. At the very same moment the head of the Revived Roman Empire will sign a 7 year peace treaty and Jews will be able to rebuild their temple. Matthew 24:40-41 (NASB). Revelation 19:21 KJV (21) And the remnant were slain with the sword Further, Jesus teaches that the ones left will be destroyed completely not have seven years of another chance to repent as the secret rapture belief teaches. of man is revealed. One day many years ago, I prayed earnestly to understand Jesus answer in Luke 17:37, and He answered my prayer using Scripture. 2 It would be better for him if a millstone [as large as one turned by a donkey] were hung around his neck and he were hurled into the sea, than . Is Matthew 24:30-31 about the rapture or second coming. After answering the Pharisees in Luke 17, Jesus said: I tell you, in that night there shall be two in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Here is Jesus' answer to the "when question," which I have paraphrased quite liberally: The day to which you are referring concerns the denouement of the Son of Man on the "Day of the Lord" which the prophets of old predicted. But the door of our mouths is to remain shut . The words in the Olivet Discourse come after the Lord has given a chronological description of events following this Church age and lasting for the 7 years of the Tribulation, culminating in the glorious return of Christ to the earth to establish His kingdom and to reign on the throne of David. saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; But most importantly the word for body is NOT a dead carcase (ptoma) but a living body (soma)! When Luke 17:34 says, "one will be taken and the other left," the words "one" and "other" are both masculine. shall lose his life shall preserve it. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: One will be taken and the other left. They will want you to return evil for their evil when they speak against you for receiving it. Soma comes from the Greek word sozo meaning I save. After He has defeated the nations of the world who attempted to annihilate Israel, He will judge everyone who survived Armageddon. indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the In verse 26, Jesus resembled the days of Noah with His second coming: "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Jesus faulted the Pharisees for missing (ignoring) the signs of the times: His own day WAS the "last days"! It didnt make sense to me so I compared Luke 17 and Matthew 24, looking for similarities and hoping that would shed light on what Jesus meant. They are similar but Lukes account took place about a week before the Olivet Discourse. What phrases give people the false idea that there will be a secret rapture? And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. Who is being "taken" in Matthew 24:40-41? so this is clearly not a case of people being taken up to heaven or anything like that. For more information on the Goat and Sheep Judgment, please read, When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? This is also called the Judgment of the Nations. Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Whom did you cite saying this? Jesus didnt say it was the Rapture. . We are to leave it all behind for His sake and the good news of our salvation that we hear in the Word of Truth spoken to our hearing ears from Heaven above. (34-35) cannot refer to the rapture as it is commonly taught, which is said to take place before the Second Coming. [31] [32] [33]IGN deu 8 de 10, dizendo "Atomic Heart uma tentativa altamente imaginativa, inspirada no atompunk, de continuar de onde BioShock parou.." Luke 17:34 describes what will happen after the judgment. The New International Version (NIV) has avoided the word men and so translates the passage with people. Here is the verse, I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Regarding Jesus' arrest, why might the gospels differ so much? Revelation 19:17-18 KJV (17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; So what does it mean that "the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city"? gather., 37 "And answering they *said to Him, Where, Lord? And He said to eg. It is true that when the Lord comes after the Tribulation He will judge the ungodly. "Remember Lot's wife. We must follow Jesus in His footsteps and go away from the congregations of unbelievers in this coming time. Antichrist will be slain with his False Prophet and they will be given their resurrection bodies and cast alive into the lake of fire. See texts below. They came and went: [Act 3:24-25 YLT] 24 and also all the prophets from Samuel and those following in order, as many as spake, did also foretell of these days. Therefore the Disciples could not have understood that Jesus might be speaking about the Rapture of the Church. Can you give me the Bible support for the Secret Rapture? The people being taken away in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are being judged and destroyed. In verse 26, Jesus resembled the days of Noah with His second coming: And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. It is so important for us today to make known the truth of the Rapture to the Jewish people. righteousness, and of judgment: (9) Of sin, because they believe not them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered 41 Two women will be grinding meal Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. (37) And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? The verse in the New American Standard Bible (NASB) and the New King James Version Bible (NKJV) reads as follows, I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. We must be faithful to the context which is Israel in the last days. , Jesus prophesies the events immediately preceding His return to this earth and the resurrection of Gods faithful people: "For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His dayTwo women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it As can be seen the angel in the foreground is depicted with eagles wings. heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil Jesus: being symbolised at the dead copse, point of interest, (,,not meaning/saying, He's a dead Copse) I like Joseph's answer, which if no other answers turn in will receive my check. of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: The short answer is that in the narratives of Matt 24, Lk 21, and Mk 13, Jesus is speaking of the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple by the armies of Rome. destroyed all of them 30 it will be like that on the day that the Son And they We must leave their "church"we must depart in this coming time so that the Wicked shall be revealed and their judgment is executed. 144x times in KJV sma is body not corps. things to come. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (Luke 17:2830). AUSTRALIA. Again, these fowl in Revelation 19 are the multitude of words of the unbelievers who will not believe in the true sayings of God when the Scriptures are opened up by the Lord to our hearing ears. We have 3 groups of people here. The NKJV translates the Greek word duoas two men in Luke 17:34, but the NASB does not.
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