That's just too money for the performance. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? After that you are GOLDEN. September 6, 2016 in DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion. Thank you all for your answers. There is a real sense of spectacle and scale when the MSB is in the system. This one has similar sound signature to MSB Premier But it is half notch below MSB Premier on dynamics, details, soundstage. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. Chord Dave Replacement. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by mtoc, Jun 9, 2016. Chord states "DAVE is the most advanced DAC we have ever made. Superior conversion begins with clean and stable low-noise power. I believe it comes down to The next module is the display which is a cool and easy-to-read LED that is slaved to the audio clock. More sharing . The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. Out of all of the DACs I've Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. Ultimately, reducing noise in a system or improving room acoustics can have a bigger effect. What else should one expect? This is a company that is All American and fiercely proud of that fact. . have had the opportunity to A/B many more pieces of equipment than any consumer subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with I have Chord Dave and Blu2 too. As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. its that good. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. This hobby is "highly subjective", influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions; therefore you can A/B a million different components and come to a completely different conclusion on how it sounds compared to another listener. The SQ is amazingly good. I can see the problem with this unit. "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned Others might disagree but these are my findings. It may not display this or other websites correctly. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. At $20,000 I recommend the MSB Premier DAC with two power supplies (KeithRs system). Everyone hears differentlyI heard the Dave with the Blu and I prefer it without it. I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. The remainder The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. Tellurium Silver Diamond USB and Chord Blu. UPnP Protocol MQA decoding Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. The best upgrade for Dave easy. I would say go for one of the other MSB ModelsThe Reference is half of the Select dac and the premier and discrete dacs are stunning performers for their price level Just in case it's not obvious, toetapaudio is a Mola Mola Dealer. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. I mean is it audibly noticeable? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Its a clever thing meaning that their products are repairable and upgradeable for example, you can have a card that is set up for single-ended outputs or balanced XLR outputs (for review we have the balanced version). I've owned a PS Audio Digital inputs : RCA coax, AES/EBU XLR, 2x Toslink optical, 2x module slots, word . There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? it just complimented my system better than those other two. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. I expected a lot better. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. Price 9k in the U.K. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. It's just more financially viable to me for the performance and price ratio. home system and listening for that end result. auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. They both use FPGA for their decoding. Is it too hot to touch? MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. and build quality is also excellent. So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. The Dave as a DAC actually sounds decent. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. This effect was evident on track after track but didnt feel like it was overly exaggerated. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. But then we have to apply the law of diminishing returns. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile. I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. First let me preface my comments by stating that I have not heard a lot of high end DACs in my system. Main Menu This puts it up against some serious competition! Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. Did I mention the remote is perfect? Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. I think people buy what they like. @astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17 i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for its greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. However, there is nothing wrong with "taking" recommendations, which help me build a list that I can use to research then find a way to audition my shortlist. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. so these are less preferred. I could easily live with any of these. 2. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. So I saw the DAC lighting up and it looked fully functional, right down displaying the bit rate etc of the file playing, but no music. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. It's easy! The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. You are using an out of date browser. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. I hope you understand. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. as far as direct comparison with other dacs the closest Ive done is listening to the Select II at shows and then listening to other top dacs in other systems at shows. Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. It's embarrassing. This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. All in all the Discrete DAC is beautiful looking, minimal, easy to set up (its all but plug and play if you turn both the PSUs on) and it feels like a proper bit of audio engineering. Complete electrical isolation Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. state his/her experience and preferences. The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. It's too damn expensive, full stop. Anyway, I switched out the valve power amplifier and put in its place the Krell KST100 (all fully fettled and brought up to a better than new spec by Krell in the States) with my intention being to see what effect was the DAC and what was down to the amp basically isolating the effect to a component. Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. I havent heard the Rockna. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. Up to 32 bit 768kHz If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. The PM2 is very special. Many of these were already in a shootout on Audiogon with the same requirements - has to sound stellar on 16/44.1 tracks: I agree that the DAVE plus Blu 2 is spectacular, but not in a "hi fi" sense. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. personal preference. The Discrete Power Supply feeds the DAC with dual low-noise power streams that are linear and independent. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. The Base module is used on the two lower DACs (including this one) and then the Preamp Output Stage for the top two DACs in the range. How does it compare? SoundLab A1Px's, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfired II, cj GAT2, cj ART, DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, TechDas AF1+ , Graham Phamtom III, Sumiko Palo Santos, vdH Black Beauty, ARC Phono 3, Studer A80, Crystal Dreamline, Transparent Audio Ref XL digital and Ref Gen V power cables, CenterStage footers, Nordost Qkore6' s and QB8's! Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. Not a bad idea Snoop! The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. However, its also very nice to listen to in this system, though I would say it is more accurate/true to the original DAC than our LAB12 DAC or perhaps our Lampizator BIG 7. With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. Mike, Scott has been absolutely wonderful in his support, despite my purchasing the Found-Music 2A3s used (from Art S.) He has visited once and is planning another visit after the trip your way. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? CH Precision C1 DAC. He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. But the differences between great DACs is small. For the most part, I used this input and for a quick comparison one of the optical inputs. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. digital 149728-117859 MSB select II vs all dacs ? comes down to knowing what you are actually trying to achieve in a high end But the majority of the time all 6 of Now to include the HMS. The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. They are all excellent DACs and at that level of performance, it's ultimately about system synergy, personal preferences and the limitations of our hearing. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. Let us do the work of refurbishing and finding your current electronics a new hometheyll continue to be enjoyed for years to come. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. Stuart Smith finds out. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. The Prime DAC Module. You already have a very top tier DAC. We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. fake by any means necessary jacket. See what the reviews are saying. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. Not sure why you would spend so much on a DAC when the Crane Song Solaris is available at $1,949. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. You are using an out of date browser. The Hugo TT2 is intended to bridge the gap between the range topping DAVE and budget Qutest rack mounted offerings. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. us, over a 2 day test period come to the exact same conclusion. but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. I dont know as that was years ago and I dont have one here to test against. very important and our preference connection is an i2S connection. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. By But dont take our word for it. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. Like the Lab12. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). Roon Endpoint Your web browser does not support iFrames. 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. It has the option for two PSUs and once you hear with both it becomes a necessity to have both. So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer.
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